But not old enough to carry a concealed firearm at a college class.
On the all-time list of really bad ideas, this one belongs near the top: An Alabama state senator has proposed legislation to allow certain college students to carry guns on campus.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this whole “campus carry” debate. I have my opinions, but let’s see what the terms of the bill proposed are.
Under Erwin’s legislation, a student at a public college or university in the state could carry a firearm on campus if he or she has no prior criminal convictions, has a license for the gun, is enrolled in an ROTC program and completes a gun skill course. The bill is a misguided response to the horrific crime at Virginia Tech earlier this year, when a student with a history of mental problems killed 33 people before killing himself.
Actually, that seems like a pretty good start to me. It’s neither misguided nor foolish, and has the added benefit of being even more publicity friendly than just allowing CCW holders to carry on campus. Of course, the author of the editorial things that allowing college students to carry firearms is just a horrible, scary idea.
Like I said, I’ve been thinking about that lately and I’ve come to the conclusion that not allowing CCW holders to carry on a college campus is pretty stupid. It occurred to me that by the time I was attending civilian college, I had already served on active duty in the Coast Guard for two years, was in the Reserves, and was probably more qualified to carry a handgun than some of the Purdue University Police department.
I fail to understand how someone who is old enough by law to pick up a rifle and fight for his country is somehow not mature to carry a concealed handgun after he has passed a rigorous background check, as well any training requirements that may exist. It strikes me as an appalling double standard.
I do understand that guns on campus is not an appealing battle to fight – I don’t want people to think for even a second that I’m saying that everyone should have guns in school or anything like that. What I am saying is that people who have passed the requirements to get a carry permit should be allowed to exercise that right at school.
Or how about this: My College, U Maine is in the Metro Bangor area. Its Mostly a rural area, VERY strong gun and hunting culture. The first people I met who carried all the time lived there. There was NO violent crime off campus. Campus there was fights, drugs, rape. I won’t say it was because it was gun-free, because it may just be a result of the concentrated age group and population density, but there was NO violent crime off campus, and LOTS of guns.
If that was the case, why would there be MORE crime if suddenly the guns could cross the street onto campus legally?
There’s just no way to make any sence of it. When you factor in campi that became carnival shooting galleries because when seconds counted the cops were minuets away, it becoes purely foolish.
How could any sane person agree with this legislation? College students are just timebombs waiting for a target. No criminal history? Biding their time. Purchasing and licensing a gun? Premeditation. ROTC? Bloodthirsty killers looking for a fight. And gun skills courses are certainly little better than Al Qaeda training camps showing our vulnerable youth the best ways to kill.
Misguided legislation such as this clearly shows the problems with the Republican party and only highlights the heartfelt desire of the Democrats to increase government bureaucracy and humanely protect Americans from themselves. Any tragedies(or atrocities) that may occur are only the fault of the Republicans, the NRA and, in some cases, Big Tobacco.
I certainly hope that Bubba is being facetious. Why does everything have to broken down into Republican or Democrat. Let’s be honest. Let’s break it down into cowards who want someone else to stand up for them (police, military, firemen) and those who are trying to protect themselves knowing that help is minutes away when the bad guy is breathing down their throat!
Maybe you think this is a starting place, Ahab, but I think it is a very poor jab at fending off people who are upset with what happened. Read the proposed legislation: …if he or she has no prior criminal convictions AND has a license for the gun AND is enrolled in an ROTC program AND completes a gun skill course. So a guy can enlist, go to war, but cannot cannot carry on campus unless he is in a ROTC program? What’s this all about? What about a guy 40 years old that already has his carry permit and is going back to college to better himself? This legislation is just a ruse!
And Bubba, before you get your nose all wrinkled, I’m from Utah, we ALLOW concealed carry on campus. Have you heard of anyone shooting up the dorms or the classrooms here? Oh, and if it’s all the same to you, the Democrats are already way too far embedded in my life, thank you!!
Bubba’s posted here before – he was just messing around.
As to it, I do think it’s a starting place. The guns in schools argument is a tough row to hoe, so it sort of needs to be broken easily to the public.
Thanks, Ahab. I really hate being set up like that. Yeah, I suppose baby steps, but it does work in both directions and we have already given and given. It’s time to get some back.
The editorial author probably refers to our soldiers and Marines in Iraq as “kids,” too. I’m also guessing that he has never ever been instructed in the art of taking responsibility for ones own actions.
And does he believe that every college student is aged 17-21 fresh out of high school? I’m sure there is a sizable population of 21-30 year olds as either undergraduates or graduate students on most major campuses.
My son entered the Marine reserves upon graduation from high schol and then used the pay from his reserve duty (and eventual one year depolyment to Iraq) to help foot the bill. He graduated one year behind his classmates dispite spotting them two years (basic and mos training plus his deployment) and has a respectable nest egg to boot.
They should amend that to include college students who are honorably discharged military veterans or current reservists, not just ROTC cadets. (Actually anyone who is 21 and can legally purchase a handgun and get a CCW ought to be allowed to carry, but like you say, tougher sell, perhaps).
Of course, I’ve always thought college ROTC cadets should be more intensely trained anyway and ought to be trained aggressively enough to entrust them with OPEN carry while in uniform…issue M9s and AR-15s. ;-)
As a Virginian who was on a college campus at the time of the V-tech shootings (GMU in NoVA), I can say, the first thought that popped into my head was: “what if just one of those people had been a concealed carrier.” Its ironic, we regularly have reports of people being accosted on campus, but nobody ever seems to think its a good idea to allow people to defend themselves (I blame it on the liberal influence in NoVA…)
Virginia has violent crime, especially in Richmond and parts of NoVA, but it never seems to get to DC levels of violence. There’s a strong gun culture here (its an open-carry state, as I’m sure Ahab knowns), and lots of responsible folks who carry. I know many folks in my group of friends at GMU I would trust with a concealed weapon, and would feel safer knowing they had on on campus. I never see campus security around except when they’re writing parking tickets or when politicians come to visit.
It would be easy to wreck havoc on any campus in America if you set your mind to it, the fact that students are not allowed to protect themselves seems to me to invite problems.
Hmm… I wonder how much trouble I’d get into if I and a couple of friends took paintball guns onto campus and “assaulted” the place to prove a point.
I suspect that you would be arrested in short order, if not shot.
Heh… probably. Though I don’t know if the officers usually carry guns or not, I don’t look so I don’t care.
That being said, GMU police are not rent-a-cops, but actual officers with police powers, so they might carry.