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	<title>Comments on: Hay guyz let&#8217;s shoot some cops</title>
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	<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/</link>
	<description>Gun info by shooters, for shooters</description>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3794</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3794</guid>
		<description>I was the one that said you don&#039;t win arguments with the police, you win arguments in court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was the one that said you don&#8217;t win arguments with the police, you win arguments in court.</p>
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		<title>By: GreatBlueWhale</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3795</link>
		<dc:creator>GreatBlueWhale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3795</guid>
		<description>I feel the same way about people who loudly proclaim that anyone they find in their home will get blown away, every round of my 30 round magazine and after they&#039;re down, a bullet between the eyes, and so on.

Said often enough to friends and family who might be compelled to testify after said incident, or published repeatedly on a blog which might be introduced as evidence, this has the potential to do tremendous damage if it happens, with the added benefit of making us all look like Neanderthals in the meantime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel the same way about people who loudly proclaim that anyone they find in their home will get blown away, every round of my 30 round magazine and after they&#8217;re down, a bullet between the eyes, and so on.</p>
<p>Said often enough to friends and family who might be compelled to testify after said incident, or published repeatedly on a blog which might be introduced as evidence, this has the potential to do tremendous damage if it happens, with the added benefit of making us all look like Neanderthals in the meantime.</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3797</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3797</guid>
		<description>Well, it apparently turns out that it was a &quot;prank&quot; of sorts by a regular commenter on Sebastian (and my) blogs, to &quot;provoke thought&quot;.  I suppose it did work at that, if only for the fact that I &quot;thought&quot; that the OP was a moron.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it apparently turns out that it was a &#8220;prank&#8221; of sorts by a regular commenter on Sebastian (and my) blogs, to &#8220;provoke thought&#8221;.  I suppose it did work at that, if only for the fact that I &#8220;thought&#8221; that the OP was a moron.</p>
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		<title>By: Ride Fast</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3796</link>
		<dc:creator>Ride Fast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3796</guid>
		<description>Not to mention you are not anonymous on the net, unless you know exactly what you are doing and are very, very careful. Dingwah brain could find his ass being tracked down if someone really wanted to find him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention you are not anonymous on the net, unless you know exactly what you are doing and are very, very careful. Dingwah brain could find his ass being tracked down if someone really wanted to find him.</p>
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		<title>By: DirtCrashr</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3798</link>
		<dc:creator>DirtCrashr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3798</guid>
		<description>I forsee a short future for Mr. Knickledick, as his method is the first to draw an overwhelmingly disproportionate jackbooted response, especially as an intemperate non-holder of the aggrieved permit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forsee a short future for Mr. Knickledick, as his method is the first to draw an overwhelmingly disproportionate jackbooted response, especially as an intemperate non-holder of the aggrieved permit.</p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3799</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3799</guid>
		<description>Just the other day Glenn Reynolds posted a link to an old article he wrote on the right of revolution.  His argument was compelling that the founders only considered that right as available when there was no representation.  As long as there are freely elected representatives and working courts, political action, not armed revolt, is how you bring about change.

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/020026.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just the other day Glenn Reynolds posted a link to an old article he wrote on the right of revolution.  His argument was compelling that the founders only considered that right as available when there was no representation.  As long as there are freely elected representatives and working courts, political action, not armed revolt, is how you bring about change.</p>
<p><a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/020026.php" rel="nofollow">http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/020026.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3800</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3800</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think they&#039;ll make gun owners look any worse than any other generic cop killer.  That person isn&#039;t a law abiding gun owner, they are a murdering criminal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;ll make gun owners look any worse than any other generic cop killer.  That person isn&#8217;t a law abiding gun owner, they are a murdering criminal.</p>
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		<title>By: Boyd</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3801</link>
		<dc:creator>Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3801</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If one CCW holder decides to get blasty-blasty with the police, it screws over &lt;b&gt;every single other&lt;/b&gt; law abiding gun owner in the country, because don’t think for a minute that the media wouldn’t blare that incident all over the news night and day.&lt;/i&gt;

Fortunately, that doesn&#039;t apply to our friend, Mr. Numbskull, since he admits he doesn&#039;t have a permit. Y&#039;know, since concealed carry restrictions are unconstitutional, and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If one CCW holder decides to get blasty-blasty with the police, it screws over <b>every single other</b> law abiding gun owner in the country, because don’t think for a minute that the media wouldn’t blare that incident all over the news night and day.</i></p>
<p>Fortunately, that doesn&#8217;t apply to our friend, Mr. Numbskull, since he admits he doesn&#8217;t have a permit. Y&#8217;know, since concealed carry restrictions are unconstitutional, and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: JJR</title>
		<link>http://gunnuts.net/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3802</link>
		<dc:creator>JJR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nrahab.com/2008/06/06/hay-guyz-lets-shoot-some-cops/#comment-3802</guid>
		<description>&#039;But all this crap about shooting cops because they’re “infringing” on your rights is stupid.&#039;

And how!  Small historical footnote, but it seems that nearly exactly this kind of scenario described by the commenter (albeit with open carry rather than concealed) is what prompted the shooting of Texas outlaw Sam Bass:

(excerpt from Wikipedia):
Bass was able to elude the [Texas] Rangers until a member of his gang, Jim Murphy, turned informant when his father was imprisoned in Tyler, Texas. He cut a deal to save his father, and informed the lawmen about the gang&#039;s plans and movements. As Bass&#039;s band rode south, Murphy telegraphed Major John B. Jones, commander of the Frontier Battalion of Texas Rangers.

Jones set up an ambush at Round Rock, where Bass planned to rob the Williamson County Bank. On July 19, 1878, Bass and his gang scouted the area before the actual robbery. When they bought some tobacco at a store (Sam was actually also buying candy - as he had a sweet tooth), they were noticed by Williamson County Sheriff A.W. (Caige) Grimes. Grimes did not even recognize the gang, rather he noticed that they had side arms, and Texas had passed a law requiring that all side arms be surrendered when entering town. Grimes approached the men to request that they surrender their sidearms, not knowing it was Bass and Co., and because he was blocking the entrance, was shot and killed. Grimes only got off one round before he died, and a heavy gunfight ensued between the outlaws, the Rangers and the local lawmen. A deputy named Moore was mortally wounded, as was Sam Bass.
============
Also, a similar issue was at the heart of the events leading up to the shootout at the OK Corral...
(long, but worth reading)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ok_Corral
Upon reading this, Is it just me, or do the Earps come off sounding like BATFE agents of their day?

Both laws in both cases were, seems to me, patently unconstitutional, but perhaps the lesson to draw is like the ditty to the People&#039;s Court used to put it, &quot;don&#039;t take the law into your own hands, you take &#039;em to court...&quot;

...Though in both the above cases, both sets of perps seem to have had what today we&#039;d call a &quot;rap sheet&quot;.  Wouldn&#039;t have been ideal &quot;test cases&quot;, in other words.

I&#039;m no legal scholar, and I do know much of modern &quot;gun control&quot; came from Southern Whites acting against freed Blacks in the post-Civil War Reconstruction era and Jim Crow...and it&#039;s an excellent historical talking point, but how much of that actually influenced/impacted these types of city ordinances out west...in Texas and Arizona in the 1870s and 1880s?

We like to rhapsodize about how free gun owners were in the Old West, but already by 1878 in the case of Sam Bass we arguably see increasing infringement on 2A rights...

...I&#039;m guess I&#039;m trying to understand how America went from tolerating open carry and viewing concealed carry as &quot;dastardly&quot; and &quot;unmanly&quot;--to almost the opposite today, with concealed carry being seemingly much more acceptable to many Americans than open carry.

This would be excellent historical material for Stephen Halbrook to dive into, or other 2A legal scholars.

I support the right of open carry in principle, but as a practical matter, I would prefer to carry concealed (and that&#039;s currently my only legal option in Texas, because our state law specifically forbids open carry)--even if it *were* legal for me to open carry here.  I&#039;d simply prefer not to draw attention to myself, retaining a potential element of surprise if ever needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;But all this crap about shooting cops because they’re “infringing” on your rights is stupid.&#8217;</p>
<p>And how!  Small historical footnote, but it seems that nearly exactly this kind of scenario described by the commenter (albeit with open carry rather than concealed) is what prompted the shooting of Texas outlaw Sam Bass:</p>
<p>(excerpt from Wikipedia):<br />
Bass was able to elude the [Texas] Rangers until a member of his gang, Jim Murphy, turned informant when his father was imprisoned in Tyler, Texas. He cut a deal to save his father, and informed the lawmen about the gang&#8217;s plans and movements. As Bass&#8217;s band rode south, Murphy telegraphed Major John B. Jones, commander of the Frontier Battalion of Texas Rangers.</p>
<p>Jones set up an ambush at Round Rock, where Bass planned to rob the Williamson County Bank. On July 19, 1878, Bass and his gang scouted the area before the actual robbery. When they bought some tobacco at a store (Sam was actually also buying candy &#8211; as he had a sweet tooth), they were noticed by Williamson County Sheriff A.W. (Caige) Grimes. Grimes did not even recognize the gang, rather he noticed that they had side arms, and Texas had passed a law requiring that all side arms be surrendered when entering town. Grimes approached the men to request that they surrender their sidearms, not knowing it was Bass and Co., and because he was blocking the entrance, was shot and killed. Grimes only got off one round before he died, and a heavy gunfight ensued between the outlaws, the Rangers and the local lawmen. A deputy named Moore was mortally wounded, as was Sam Bass.<br />
============<br />
Also, a similar issue was at the heart of the events leading up to the shootout at the OK Corral&#8230;<br />
(long, but worth reading)<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ok_Corral" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ok_Corral</a><br />
Upon reading this, Is it just me, or do the Earps come off sounding like BATFE agents of their day?</p>
<p>Both laws in both cases were, seems to me, patently unconstitutional, but perhaps the lesson to draw is like the ditty to the People&#8217;s Court used to put it, &#8220;don&#8217;t take the law into your own hands, you take &#8216;em to court&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;Though in both the above cases, both sets of perps seem to have had what today we&#8217;d call a &#8220;rap sheet&#8221;.  Wouldn&#8217;t have been ideal &#8220;test cases&#8221;, in other words.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no legal scholar, and I do know much of modern &#8220;gun control&#8221; came from Southern Whites acting against freed Blacks in the post-Civil War Reconstruction era and Jim Crow&#8230;and it&#8217;s an excellent historical talking point, but how much of that actually influenced/impacted these types of city ordinances out west&#8230;in Texas and Arizona in the 1870s and 1880s?</p>
<p>We like to rhapsodize about how free gun owners were in the Old West, but already by 1878 in the case of Sam Bass we arguably see increasing infringement on 2A rights&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;I&#8217;m guess I&#8217;m trying to understand how America went from tolerating open carry and viewing concealed carry as &#8220;dastardly&#8221; and &#8220;unmanly&#8221;&#8211;to almost the opposite today, with concealed carry being seemingly much more acceptable to many Americans than open carry.</p>
<p>This would be excellent historical material for Stephen Halbrook to dive into, or other 2A legal scholars.</p>
<p>I support the right of open carry in principle, but as a practical matter, I would prefer to carry concealed (and that&#8217;s currently my only legal option in Texas, because our state law specifically forbids open carry)&#8211;even if it *were* legal for me to open carry here.  I&#8217;d simply prefer not to draw attention to myself, retaining a potential element of surprise if ever needed.</p>
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