Some guy threw a fit about how we shouldn’t treat women in the shooting sports differently in the comments section on one of Andrew’s post over at Vurrwapen Blog. I am going to give this commenter the benefit of the doubt, and pretend that he is a victim of poor word choice and poor attitude. Mostly poor attitude.
Caleb has written before about giving new shooters a condescending head pat rather than showing them support and providing constructive criticism. The commenter on Andrew’s post is arguing that elevating women is unfair, and, as I am inclined to view the argument, the articles that elevate us within the industry are more of a condescending head pat. Which can be true, there are certain articles and certain ideals about getting women into the shooting sports that words have been expended on that are nothing more than condescending head pats. Do I think Andrew’s article is one of those? Absolutely not.
One example of the condescending head pat would be the concept of a “good girl’s gun”, the number of gentlemen who have argued with me after I recommend letting their girlfriend or wife try out M&Ps and Glocks first is astounding. I think I’m supposed to tell them to get something quaint, small, feminine and really awful to shoot. She is a person. She shoots guns. Let her find the one she likes. I don’t have any right answers anymore than anyone else does.
Conversely, there is a little bit of a mental block and, at some gun shops (thankfully not mine), women will get treated in a rather condescending manner. I’ve seen it, I’ve been subjected to it.
At the Ladies of the Industry Happy Hour
There is a psychological barrier where girls (and some gun shop employees) think shooting is “manly” and “tough” rather than a practical, equalizing and esteem-building sport. Which is why when guys at the range say “I have to get my wife in here and let her see you behind the counter and talk shop with you!” or “She has a bedazzled holster! Sweetie, take a look at this!” or “Check out her snakeskin gun! You totally want one now, don’t you?” I’m not offended at all. These men are excited because they’ve found something to help their wife or girlfriend relate to the sport, and that’s awesome, that’s what I want. This is all process of breaking down that psychological barrier and helping women realize this isn’t a man’s world anymore.
Walking around SHOT Show 2012 it was very apparent how many professional and very serious women there are in the gun industry. The demographics have changed and supporting this trend through positive articles such as the one at Vuurwapen Blog is excellent, but we all need to carefully tread that line between a condescending pat on the head and showing support.
You’re right — women shouldn’t be treated differently because they are women. A female shooter should be treated as an individual, with the understanding that her knowledge, skills, challenges and goals MAY be very different from a “typical” male.
Of course, as a male, I’d like to be treated as an individual too…..
http://www.corneredcat.com/What_Gun_for_a_Man/
Totally agree with your points Shelly.
Reality time, there are plenty of men who do not know the first thing about firearms. I know as I have had the opportunity to council several men who wanted to purchase a firearm for their families protection. So it is another myth broken, all men do not know about safe handling of firearms. Sadly seems that most of them got their very limited firearms knowledge from tv. Pretty scary.
Agreed with John. I’ve done numerous “tactical” pistol classes, some great, some not so great. I’ve been shooting competitively for 2 years, and I recently became an NRA RSO. I am by no means an expert, but I have a solid basis of knowledge and skills.
And most of the people at the range or the gun store, male or female, scare the crap out of me. Men are generally the worst because they think they know stuff when they don’t. Women at least will admit they don’t know and ask questions (which the gun store employee will likely answer incorrectly). They are much more likely to drop the gun though.
I do not advocate any gov’t restrictions on firearm ownership, but everyone should do themselves a favor and get trained. If anything, it will save you a bunch of money from buying the wrong equipment.
I think some of the condescending attitude falls on some gun manufacturers as well. I was at a gun store recently that sold “Lady Lavender” revolvers in different colors and I thought that was ridiculous. I could just picture a female walking in and being steered towards a firearm like that because it’s “pretty”.
Of course, you also have the guys who walk in and are drawn to a gun that’s “ATAS,” which is a manly way of saying it’s pretty.
Brian, you’re absolutely right. But there’s a weird flip side to that: ladies (by no means all, but many) that wouldn’t buy a pink anything see the pink stuff on a firearm and call them “their guns”. I’ve asked several female friends why that is, and they don’t really have a good reason why that is. If it makes them happy and brings them into the shooting sports, I’m all for it.
I completely agree, Shelley! As a new comer to IDPA style competitions my fiance has been wanting in on the action but is leery to jump in the truck with me to head to the range because of what she calls the “little dog in a purse” treatment that men have given her during her concealed carry test and while at the range by herself.
I listened to an old podcast of Caleb’s in which he was speaking about women and self defense handgun usage and selection. So my fiance and I went to the gun store together in which I let her take the lead in selecting her handgun. I steered her towards certain brands and calibers and helped her with the logistics of the guns but otherwise she put her hands on the guns, took proper firing stance, tested the triggers, mag releases, and slide operation. She had shot my M&P 9mm, Para 1911, and my S&W 686 before. She liked the recoil of the 9mm so she ended up getting a Taurus 609 after having almost half a dozen pistols lined up on the counter.
After almost a thousand rounds at the range and through her CCW license test she is a beast in a head to head group competition which makes me very proud since she had never handled or let alone fired a handgun.
It’s not always “condescending head pat” treatment that goes on. The one that aggravates me is watching so many of the other SOs fawn over new female shooters that come try the local IDPA club matches. Thankfully, they don’t ignore the new male shooters. But the difference is pretty pathetic, and I’m sure it plays a large part in why few of them come back.
My daughter and I shoot IDPA matches (she is 16 years). She is fond of Glock pistols and can shoot her model 17 very well. I only encourage her competitive spirit and to have fun, as her shooting skills improve so does her confidence.
Man or woman you have to try different models for yourself and the best place to do that is a local range that has a good rental selection.
Women can shoot, anyone who has a doubt is living in another era, it is also good to see movement on the business end as well. Condescending attitudes are what they are which is usually an unwillingness to hear a different perspective.
I have this conversation all of the time since I have a lot of first-time female shooters come to me for advice. I really try to break the “woman’s gun” myth right away and generally recommend a Glock, XD or M&P. My biggest recommendation is fit and comfort, not “ease of use”.
yea guns have recoil so obviously a woman cannot handle it as well, as it requires strength. You might be crazy enough to believe women are as strong as men though…
You shouldn’t take things so personally, I am sure smaller weaker males get the wuss guns shown to them first. It is about strength not gender.
Being 5’6, I can honestly say that I’ve never been pandered to in the way that people talk to women shooters despite my small stature.
Unless you’re shooting a canon, the average woman can handle any handgun that the average man can. Women don’t have glass wrists. The issue is condescension, not “strength.”
Whenever I hear about Men being condescending to Female Shooters, I wonder what all those Female Red Army Snipers from WW2 would say.
It’s not about strength, it is about technique. Yes, stronger arms and larger body bulk will absorb some felt recoil, but grip technique, fit and function of the gun have much more to do with it than strength.
The biggest reason I’m encouraging to females who are interested or involved in shooting is because of a “Shooting USA” episode from a few years ago. They were covering the NRA’s classes for women, and the NRA guy said something pretty profound. I don’t remember it in its entirety, but it was basically that, in a more or less traditional “nuclear family (read that as 2+2, not as in the woman is the stay-at-home type),” women are often the final arbiter in which activities their children will participate.
By and large, that’s true. Fathers may encourage or discourage certain activities, but mothers are generally the ones who give their blessings as a final green light. At the very least, the parents make that decision together, and, if one of them disagrees, the kids don’t get to do it. So influencing women to get involved makes for a more natural extension of the shooting sports to our youth.
I’m the shooter in my household, but my wife is slowly (we’re coming up on 16 years) coming around. But, she’s never actively discouraged my sport. Nor has she discouraged my kids from participating. She’s even gone out of her way to make it easier for them to participate. If she really didn’t want them to do it, she could easily set up obstacles.
Of course, setting conditions early matters. My wife doesn’t come from a family with a shooting background and she grew up in the city. I’m a small town Iowa kid who used to be able to go across the street to the alfalfa field to shoot, often unsupervised. She was a bit leery of my proclivity toward gun ownership, and I told her (in no uncertain terms) if we were going to have a future together, she’d have to accommodate my desire to own guns, shoot them, and devote part of our income toward those activities. If that was a problem, it would be better to part company now as friends, rather than having it be a source of drama later.
*shrugs* I love to see women shooting, because it gives me a good feeling about the future of the sport going strong. If I had daughters, I’d damn sure take them as readily as I’ve taken my sons.
There are few topics in the world that bring out men’s egos than guns. Ironically this applies to anti-gunners too. Anything that brings more people into the REAL “gun culture” is a good thing. More shooters means more pro-gun voters. If that means men need to swallow their pride, so be it. The same goes minorities as well. I go out of my way to make nongunners want to go to the range. I let them use my guns, ammo, range, eye and ear pro, and I’ll take out to lunch too if I need to in order to win them over to the 2nd Amendment.
Issues of fashion isnt unique to the gun world. How many shoes are sold to women on the basis of fashion but are manufactured poorly or cause foot problems and are impractical in general? I see this same phenomenon bleeding over to the gun world and unfortunately, often at the expense of practicality, comfort, and even safety.
Why this happens says more about society as a whole and how many of us (both men and women) view ourselves and our place in it than can be blamed on any one bigot. After all there are many women who are attracted to pink guns as are directed towards them by men. I feel it falls under the same reasons when you go to the toy store that the “boy” isle is predominately browns, blacks and bold colors while the “girl” isle is predominately pinks, whites and pastel colors.
Interestingly I purposely avoided directing my children to any specific isle regarding their sex but my oldest wasn’t even 4 before she was obsessed with all things pink or “princess”. This was not influenced at home so I can only assume society at large played a large role in it (peer playing etc.) This is something far larger than men deciding what sort of guns women should have behind the counter unfortunately.
As a woman, I have zero interest in owning a cutesy pink firearm. Guns are not a fashion statement, and I even find it slightly demeaning that manufacturers are finding it necessary to offer pink guns to draw the attention of the female market. I realize their intentions are probably good.
But anyone who is purchasing firearms based on their color options is in it for the wrong reasons.
As a woman, a long time shooter, and a new shooter to IDPQA I don t see women in our gun stores and clubs locally being treated any differently than the men. I see men and women with poor gun handling skills and everyone is eager to be sure they are safe, talk about gun choices, ammunition choices and all of the other equipment needed. The only place I see where the shooting sports community needs to step it up is in the clothing. I find it difficult to find clothing small enough for myself or for my sons when they were in their early teens. Oh, and i really wish they d get off the pink thing, I prefer yellow :)
Right! I mean really, if they’re concerned with making different color options available, then they should offer all models in a variety of colors. It’s pretty clear that there is a gender distinction being made, when the options are black or pink. My fav. color is blue.
I agree with your article, Shelly. As a woman, and even a “small” woman in law enforcement, I not only use my weapon for work purposes, but fun on the range. I carry a Springfield XD .45 and love it. I’m also a firearms instructor and a Springfield Armorer. My husband is a state firearms instructor at the police academy and sees plenty of female shooters come through…good and bad. I do understand that some women who are not confident in their shooting are more comfortable being taught by another female. That’s where I come in sometimes and I have also seen men roll their eyes and be condescending to them, but I have also seen men give credit where credit is due.
I love to see new females take interest in the sport and other women in L.E. WANT to feel more confident in their shooting skills and I will do whatever it takes to help them get there. I have also had men take the “your just a woman, you can’t shoot,” attitude with me, but rather than get upset about it, I let my skills speak for me. I wish I had made contact with you at SHOT. I LOVED seeing all of the women there!
Keep up the good work!